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I'm seriously tired of seeing the same bad arguments repeated over and over again. My last post on this issue for a while is inside.
"You can't keep guns out of a determined persons hands" - spree killings are rarer in places with gun controls, and more common in America, which has looser controls. Could there possibly be a link? Also, this argument is especially terrible, because the next logical step is "why we should do anything to prevent terrorism?" Because you can't stop crazy people if they're sufficiently determined to do something. Obviously we should take steps to prevent and minimise acts of terrorism. It's just as obvious that we should take steps to prevent spree killings.
"Legislating restrictions does nothing more than just make people "feel better"" - of course they do more. Countries with gun controls have much lower rates of gun deaths and gun homicide than the United States. Again, might there possibly be a link between the two? How can you look at other countries that have far lower gun homicide rates and far fewer spree killings and say "gun control is absolutely not a factor"? What differences are there between two countries as similar as Canada and the United States that might explain America having a gun homicide rate five times that of Canada's? Single-payer healthcare? Having a Queen? Tim Horton's maple syrup donuts? Or gun control?
"Civil war" - is this a serious argument? And is anyone seriously talking about confiscation? I haven't heard it from any decision-makers. Or anyone in this discussion. Red herring.
Paraphrasing, but - "Things have changed in the last 200 years, but private gun ownership hasn't - therefore it has to be something else" - yes, things have changed. Guns have more ammunition, they fire faster and more accurately, they take less time to reload, they are less likely to jam, they can be bought over the internet without a background check... Sure there are non-gun factors too, but the argument that "private gun ownership hasn't changed" is obviously false.
I'm sorry if I sound frustrated, but that's because I am frustrated. Trying to understand the position of and respond to people who don't want to understand yours is frustrating. Again and again in these threads it's all "the problem is anything but guns", supported by feeble, repeated and wrong arguments such as "we can't do anything about it" and "liberals just want to feel better".
But the reality is that we've all had three days since the discussion started to think about it and still no one has brought up any credible alternative reason for why gun violence is so high in the US. What I see is blunt, wilful refusal to even consider that the problem could possibly be related to guns.
So further discussion from me just seems pointless.
I apologise to those on the pro-gun side who have made an effort to understand my position (and the position of other posters from the gun-control side), I do not mean to implicate you in this post. But it was post or beat my head against a desk repeatedly.
Re: Guns and crime: The rate of both homicides and shootings has been dramatically decreasing in the U.S. Dec 18, 07:46
specifically, the schools, the particular theater, and the shopping mall all banned firearms, including those with Dec 18, 11:56
An interesting article from Ezra Klein of the Washington Post. He addresses Switzerland in a correction piece also linked. Dec 18, 09:02
More American Stupidity - richest country in the world - and no Universal HealthCare for its citizens - Pathetic. {nm} Dec 18, 15:13
From wikipedia, crime statistics and gun violence statistics for the U.S. Dec 18, 10:38
That someone was an law enforcement officer, not some random citizen. {nm} Dec 18, 12:02
Pure luck. In his absence, a responsibly armed citizen would have been the next best thing. {nm} Dec 18, 14:51
Since I'm not a gun owner and thus haven't received training that I assume comes with earning a permit, does anyone know how Dec 18, 15:11
Requirements vary by state. Some requre yearly yearly renewal, some measure of performance. Others, probably just paperwork. Dec 18, 15:40
here are a few answers for you... Dec 18, 18:44
Thanks - it's interesting to see perspectives like this. {nm} Dec 18, 19:37
Thank you for taking hte time to explain your situation and experience with guns. It gives me better understanding and context Dec 18, 19:39
the reason the proficiency requirement was dropped... Dec 18, 20:27
Assumptions again. A wild wild west shootout could result in additional victims from an untrained civilians.. {nm} Dec 19, 08:59
(scratch 27; make that 26) {nm} Dec 19, 10:15
You get things like this happening with trained police officers. Dec 19, 10:50
I just provided an example of where involvement by trained police officers caused the unintended injury of eight people Dec 19, 11:46
I think you may find that Dec 20, 04:08
I was reading his blog last night, and it doesn't give me a lot of confidence. Dec 20, 07:18
Yes, I'm making another assumption to counter your assumption. {nm} Dec 19, 11:53
Learning how to shoot is not difficult. It requires time and patience. You put too much credit in with the govt {nm} Dec 20, 05:42
Largest massacre at a school ever didn't even involve guns. Eight pistols or even a good sword could have had same results Dec 19, 06:02
If you're talking about this one, it was 85 years ago and involved explosives. Are there controls on who can buy explosives? Dec 19, 08:23
If explosive regulation is so effective, why are we so afraid of terrorists? {nm} Dec 19, 21:40
Why would we use peoples' feelings to measure the effectiveness of regulation? {nm} Dec 20, 07:25
My point is that you cant' keep explosives out of a determined persons hands with regulation. Why would guns be different? Dec 20, 10:30
I'm seriously tired of seeing the same bad arguments repeated over and over again. My last post on this issue for a while is inside. Dec 20, 13:58
Bad arguments, or just ones you don't want to accept? Dec 20, 17:04
Heh - I probably shouldn't have checked in on Life board today. But anyway... Dec 21, 13:31
