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I think you may find that

Posted by: edzep - Port Monkey! (a.k.a edzep) on Dec 20, 04:08 in response to RogerMore's post Aw man, a whole book? Isn't there some sort of Cliff's...

the author deconstructs some of those gun death stats you refer to.

As to some gun restrictions proposed as reasonable, you might get acceptance of instant background checks for all weapons. They are already mandated for handguns purchased through dealers. I'm not sure the vaunted gun show exception really exists.

Registration -- which, one could argue, does exist when instant backgound checks exist; you're just down to data storage -- gets closer to a constitutional issue, and how easy it would become to attempt confiscation.

"No fly lists" for gun ownership may sound good, but present great opportunity for abuse. Think of the civil liberties uproar when someone is found to be on a TSA no fly list, but, no one can or will say why.

You should be aware that "assault weapon" is a political term that means "scary looking guns." A real assault weapon would be a fully automatic military arm. These are not available to the public. (A small number do exist, but are so heavily restricted, they are effectively banned; sort of like plastic explosives or rocket launchers; automatic weapons have not been used in any of the mass media shooting spectacles.)

The "scary looking weapons" that politicians talk about banning have the same mechanical components that the vast majority of hunting and sporting arms have, which have been around since the early 1900s.

That's why you get resistance to "assault weapons bans." It's like banning every car with a spoiler on it, even though they can't go fast enough to have aerodynamic effect. What's next, my car with Ferrari red paint?

Ā 

Re: Guns and crime: The rate of both homicides and shootings has been dramatically decreasing in the U.S. forlorne Dec 18, 07:46

What do you mean "all of the recent mass shootings have taken place specifically where firearms are banned". It's clearly legal to own RogerMore Dec 18, 08:52

specifically, the schools, the particular theater, and the shopping mall all banned firearms, including those with forlorne Dec 18, 11:56

I don't think it's very pragmatic to have loaded firearms in places where there are lots of children - like schools, or theatres. RogerMore Dec 18, 13:07

An interesting article from Ezra Klein of the Washington Post. He addresses Switzerland in a correction piece also linked. Paul2k Dec 18, 09:02

More American Stupidity - richest country in the world - and no Universal HealthCare for its citizens - Pathetic. {nm} RotoHockeyYTD2012 Dec 18, 15:13

From wikipedia, crime statistics and gun violence statistics for the U.S. Paul2k Dec 18, 10:38

I'm a pragmatist. It seems abundantly clear laws do not keep guns away from criminals, and random mental illness will always be with us. forlorne Dec 18, 11:58

Hmm. Laws do not keep guns away from ciminals? While that is true, from my perspective, it seems to be the wrong way of looking at it. Paul2k Dec 18, 13:53

Yesterday, someone pulled out a gun at a theater and started shooting. They got one shot off, and someone who had a gun dropped them. forlorne Dec 18, 11:59

That someone was an law enforcement officer, not some random citizen. {nm} Antibody Dec 18, 12:02

Pure luck. In his absence, a responsibly armed citizen would have been the next best thing. {nm} edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 18, 14:51

Since I'm not a gun owner and thus haven't received training that I assume comes with earning a permit, does anyone know how Paul2k Dec 18, 15:11

Requirements vary by state. Some requre yearly yearly renewal, some measure of performance. Others, probably just paperwork. edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 18, 15:40

It's good to hear that the people you know do treat their CCW permits with such seriousness and gravity. One hopes that all others Paul2k Dec 18, 15:47

here are a few answers for you... RazorHawk Dec 18, 18:44

Thanks - it's interesting to see perspectives like this. {nm} RogerMore Dec 18, 19:37

Thank you for taking hte time to explain your situation and experience with guns. It gives me better understanding and context Paul2k Dec 18, 19:39

the reason the proficiency requirement was dropped... RazorHawk Dec 18, 20:27

It would be foolhardy to assume an untrained civilian would get the exact same result. He could have just as well shoot innocent bystanders Antibody Dec 18, 19:43

Waiting for popo is what gets people killed. They can't protect you when bullets start flying. That shooter might have taken out a dozen edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 19, 02:30

Assumptions again. A wild wild west shootout could result in additional victims from an untrained civilians.. {nm} Antibody Dec 19, 08:59

Your assumption. Connecticut, say: your assumption is that responsible CCW holder would have blundered into accidentally killing 27 edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 19, 10:06

(scratch 27; make that 26) {nm} edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 19, 10:15

You get things like this happening with trained police officers. RogerMore Dec 19, 10:50

Dunno. But, any claim that a CCW holder is likely to have made that situation worse, defies logic. In the meantime, people died while the edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 19, 11:04

I just provided an example of where involvement by trained police officers caused the unintended injury of eight people RogerMore Dec 19, 11:46

You have convinced me that some police officers are so poorly trained, that some private citizens must surely be better. But, seriously, edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 19, 16:50

Aw man, a whole book? Isn't there some sort of Cliff's Notes? I'd like to know why he think rates of gun deaths and gun homicides RogerMore Dec 19, 20:46

I think you may find that edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 20, 04:08

I was reading his blog last night, and it doesn't give me a lot of confidence. RogerMore Dec 20, 07:18

Yes, I'm making another assumption to counter your assumption. {nm} Antibody Dec 19, 11:53

Learning how to shoot is not difficult. It requires time and patience. You put too much credit in with the govt {nm} websch01ar Dec 20, 05:42

Again, I must say that the best way to curb these mass killings to limit the fire power. There's absolutely no reason for assault rifles... elchan Dec 18, 20:21

Largest massacre at a school ever didn't even involve guns. Eight pistols or even a good sword could have had same results forlorne Dec 19, 06:02

If you're talking about this one, it was 85 years ago and involved explosives. Are there controls on who can buy explosives? RogerMore Dec 19, 08:23

If explosive regulation is so effective, why are we so afraid of terrorists? {nm} Scorpion Dec 19, 21:40

Why would we use peoples' feelings to measure the effectiveness of regulation? {nm} RogerMore Dec 20, 07:25

My point is that you cant' keep explosives out of a determined persons hands with regulation. Why would guns be different? Scorpion Dec 20, 10:30

I'm seriously tired of seeing the same bad arguments repeated over and over again. My last post on this issue for a while is inside. RogerMore Dec 20, 13:58

Bad arguments, or just ones you don't want to accept? Scorpion Dec 20, 17:04

Heh - I probably shouldn't have checked in on Life board today. But anyway... RogerMore Dec 21, 13:31





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