HSX Forum

TVStocks, MusicStocks and Life

Reply Topic List All Forums

report abuse

I was reading his blog last night, and it doesn't give me a lot of confidence.

Posted by: RogerMore on Dec 20, 07:18 in response to edzep - Port Monkey!'s post I think you may find that

For international comparisons, his usual argument goes "This country implemented this gun control, and then violent crime and burglary went up by xx%". He doesn't mention how many of those crimes involve guns, so I think his argument is "more people owning guns deters more crime"

But I haven't found anything about the question I'm interested in - why are US gun death rates so much higher? Why does the US have 11,000 gun homicides a year, against the UK's 60? That's not just a big difference, that's a staggeringly huge one. It seems so obvious, but until the pro-gun people are prepared to even consider that guns might be part of the problem, I don't see discussion moving forward.

Also, I realised that he was the guy that forlorne got his talking points from about 2 of the 4 biggest school shootings happening in Germany and the biggest ever school massacre. I realise that you have to have short, clear, catchy messages to get on the news - but neither is a good argument, and I'd hope an economist would have better ones. So... yeah.

I appreciate your comments on the gun restrictions. I don't think either of us gets involved in internet discussions to change our minds, but it does help my understanding of where the pro-gun people see issues. All I'll say is that these measures have been adopted in other countries, have been successful in curbing gun violence, and haven't resulted in overbearing government tyranny - not even when there was a federal ban on assault weapons. And sure, assault weapons are scary-looking guns. But they are also the weapons most used in spree killings. So why not consider restricting them, or limiting their magazine size or whatever?

I appreciate the constitutional issues, and also the issues around personal security brought up by RH. But I think there's a way forward to bring in gun controls that will reduce the number of gun deaths and mass shootings, without unduly compromising on personal security or breaching the Second Amendment.

Re: Guns and crime: The rate of both homicides and shootings has been dramatically decreasing in the U.S. forlorne Dec 18, 07:46

What do you mean "all of the recent mass shootings have taken place specifically where firearms are banned". It's clearly legal to own RogerMore Dec 18, 08:52

specifically, the schools, the particular theater, and the shopping mall all banned firearms, including those with forlorne Dec 18, 11:56

I don't think it's very pragmatic to have loaded firearms in places where there are lots of children - like schools, or theatres. RogerMore Dec 18, 13:07

An interesting article from Ezra Klein of the Washington Post. He addresses Switzerland in a correction piece also linked. Paul2k Dec 18, 09:02

More American Stupidity - richest country in the world - and no Universal HealthCare for its citizens - Pathetic. {nm} RotoHockeyYTD2012 Dec 18, 15:13

From wikipedia, crime statistics and gun violence statistics for the U.S. Paul2k Dec 18, 10:38

I'm a pragmatist. It seems abundantly clear laws do not keep guns away from criminals, and random mental illness will always be with us. forlorne Dec 18, 11:58

Hmm. Laws do not keep guns away from ciminals? While that is true, from my perspective, it seems to be the wrong way of looking at it. Paul2k Dec 18, 13:53

Yesterday, someone pulled out a gun at a theater and started shooting. They got one shot off, and someone who had a gun dropped them. forlorne Dec 18, 11:59

That someone was an law enforcement officer, not some random citizen. {nm} Antibody Dec 18, 12:02

Pure luck. In his absence, a responsibly armed citizen would have been the next best thing. {nm} edzep - Port Monkey! Dec 18, 14:51